Several issues getting started....

[jbuszkie]

Ok.. I've played with my USB-UIRT for a little bit and I'm stuck, ignorant, and confused...

problem 1.

I'm trying to assign an eventstring in girder. I press learn and then hit the botton on the remote. It records a string of number. The issue is if I do the same thing again, I get a different string of numbers. If I just hit buttons on the remote and look at the bottom of girder I see codes
go by. If I keep hitting the same button, I get different codes. Sometimes the code will repeat.. This happens with two of the three remotes I'm experimenting with. 1. my remote for my LT240 Projector. 2. the Happauge pvr 250 remote (silver) 3. My yamaha receiver remote. The receiver remote is the one that works most consistantly and as I would expect..

problem 2. so I go into the usb-UIRT plugin area on girder and go to settings. I figure maybe I can see what UIRT is seeing. So I try to have
UIRT learn a button from my LT240 remote. I hit learn and nothing happens until I put the remote about 2" away. Then still I get inconsistant results. Sometimes it will just fill the first line, othertimes it will fill both lines. I've yet to be able to succussfully "test" the code and have my LT240 respond at all.

If I go into IRdebug, I get inconsistant results...
How do I use IRdebug to help myself? What do the results from IRdebug
give? Is there an place where I can get more info on this?

What is this import as raw? Where can I learn about this and other things instead of bugging you?

How should I procede?

I'm fairly confident I have the lastest drives,firmware, plugins. I pulled the driver and girder plugin from the web, and the unit is a month old so the firmware should be current..

Help!!

Thanks,

Jim

[jrhees]

Jim,

Sorry to hear you're having problems. Lets go over things one at a time:

First, lets deal with the issue of getting different codes for a button. Try this: If you hold a button down, do you see multiple events come into Girder? If so, do the codes for these events match?
Next, if you press a button over and over again, do you get different codes? If so, what happens if you hold the button for a long time each time?

Second, when learning, you *will* have to hold the remote very close. You'll want to aim the remote just to the left of the RED LED. Depending on the remote, you'll need to be somewhere between 2" and 6" away generally. When the distance is good, the signal quality meter will go up on the learn dialog and the LED on the USB-UIRT will flash consistently. When learning, press the Learn button and once the learn dialog has appeared, position the remote, and then PRESS and HOLD the remote button. You don't want to let go of the button or move the remote until the learning has completed.

These suggestions also hold true for IR debug. If you're having problems learning a code, you can perform an IR debug and post it to me. I can look at it and help diagnose what is going wrong.

Import as RAW means that when importing a Pronto code, it is stored in the Girder GML as a RAW USB-UIRT code instead of a compresed one. This is generally recommended since RAW codes are more universal (they are similar to Pronto codes) and space really isn't an issue.

-Jon

[jbuszkie]

I've made a little progress...

It turns out that the two remotes that weren't working may have been weaker... here's what I did..

with my LT240 remote and the hauppauge I moved them a lot closer to the UIRT (like right in front). This made a BIG difference. I now will consistantly get the same code on the LT240 remote, but a I get alternating codes with the hauppauge remote. Is that possible? It might have two states and will alternate between two codes? It's very consistant....

How sensitive is the receiver in the UIRT? My original setup had the UIRT about a foot behind me. I would aim the remote at the screen and have it bounce off and hit the UIRT. The UIRT is where the rest of my components are. total travel is about 20'-24'. The LT240 remote and the receiver remote work just fine this way with their respective components. The Hauppauge never work consistantly even with it's own receiver.. I guess the Hauppauge remote just sucks!

As for learning to transmit....

I was able to get the UIRT to learn some of the LT240 commands and successfully test them. It did, however, take several tries for each command. I would have to learn and then test until I got the correct response. This bothers me a lilttle. I guess with trial and error I can
get them all in. It will just take some time. I might have to put the UIRT and the remote on a table and "learn" that way instead of holding the remote up to the UIRT. Is this common?

I also was able to reorient the UIRT such that the LT240 remote will
always give just one code... but I can't get the Hauppauge to work. It's not that big of a deal... I wasn't really planning on using it anyway... but it would have been nice to have that option.

Could I just have a less sensitve UIRT? Is there anyway to adjust/measure it??

Thanks for the help.. You have a really good product.

BTW... what's the jack on the back for??

Thanks,

Jim

[jbuszkie]

Ok.. Now I've really started playing..

My whole goal here was to use my receiver remote to
control my whole HTPC.

Now after playing with the receiver remote, it seems that it as well isn't
working with the UIRT. The VOl up and down seem to be transmitting stronger than some of the other buttons. I have to aim the remote over my shoulder to get most of the bottons to work with the UIRT. However they work just fine with my receiver pointing to the screen and bouncing back. The receiver and the UIRT a basically in the same spot.

Could I have a weak receiver??? Is there some way to test this??

Thanks,

jim

[jrhees]

A couple of questions:

First, you say you could make things work when you moved the remotes "right in front" of the USB-UIRT. Was this when you were learning codes for transmission, or did you need to do this just to see events in Girder??? How close to the USB-UIRT do you have to get these remotes for consistent codes when you're looking at the 12-digit codes that appear in the Girder window?

Second, could you tell me what carrier frequency your Hauppage remote is using? You'll see this when you're learning... Also, what is the frequency of the LT240 remote?

The jack on the back is for an external emitter(s). Some people use this along with those little stick-on emitters to control some of their equipment. In your case, with equipment in the same room, the USB-UIRT is probably powerful enough with its built-in emitters to make things work.

Your problems with learning are (a little) common. Learning can be an art, since a universal learning algorithm is tricky and a lot can go wrong. The goal is to eventually get the USB-UIRT's learning algorithms to be as refined as something like the Pronto. But, only time and a lot of user feedback will get us there.

You say that you're getting alternating Girder codes from the LT240 remote? This could be that it is an RC-5 remote. RC-5 remotes toggle between two different codes on each successive button-press. In the future, I'll probably add a 'filter' option to 'warp' these codes to the same code. Most people simply learn two girder events for each of the buttons.

-Jon

[jbuszkie]

A couple of questions:

First, you say you could make things work when you moved the remotes "right in front" of the USB-UIRT. Was this when you were learning codes for transmission, or did you need to do this just to see events in Girder??? How close to the USB-UIRT do you have to get these remotes for consistent codes when you're looking at the 12-digit codes that appear in the Girder window?

This was just to see events in Girder. To get consistant codes, I have to move ~4-8' forward toward the screen. This makes the total distance about 16' or so.. The screen is 100" diag. So it's a pretty big surface to bounce from...

Second, could you tell me what carrier frequency your Hauppage remote is using? You'll see this when you're learning... Also, what is the frequency of the LT240 remote? -Jon

They are both around 38K. Maybe the Hauppauge is a RC-5 remote...

How far should I expect to receive signals with UIRT? Is 20-24' asking too much? The receiver's receiver seem's to handle it fine..

I would think my setup is pretty common...

Thanks,

Jim

[jrhees]

About 20' is typical. However, there are *many* variables which can affect this -- including the remote's infrared wavelength vs. the USB-UIRT's receiver's peak wavelength sensitivity, ambient infrared and light, infrared 'noise' in the room, etc. etc.

Unfortunately, it is also common for a universal receiver to *not* perform as well as the specialized receiver in a piece of consumer electronics equipment. Here's why:

1. Your equipment's IR receiver and the IR emitter in the remote that comes with it are usually 'matched' for IR wavelength. IR from various devices varies in wavelength (just as different RED LED's differ in their actual color). A universal IR detector (like the one I use, is centered at 940nm).

2. The specialized receiver in a piece of equipment can be *much* more sensitive than a universal IR receiver. Why?, well because since the equipment's controller knows *exactly* what protocol to look for, it can use an IR receiver which 'sees' more sensitively, and as such passes much more IR noise to the controller. The controller can then filter out all the extraneous garbage and look for the remote's signal. In a universal receiver, we do *not* know what protocol we're looking for (because there are all sorts of protocols for differing equipment), so the receiver must perform heavier filtering so as to not continually bombard Girder with all sorts of spurious events.

There is a possibility, I suppose, that the receiver is not working well in your USB-UIRT, however, if you can aim your remote directly at the USB-UIRT (line of sight) at a distance of ~20ft. and it receives OK, this is about typical.

One thing you can do to increase the sensitivity somewhat is to remove the front lens of the USB-UIRT. This attenuates the IR somewhat as it acts as an additional ambient light filter. If you want to try this, be aware that there are *3* screws holding the USB-UIRT together (one is hidden under the serial number label).

Please let me know what you find,

Best Regards,

Jon

[Guest]

Ok.. I'll try to remove the front cover.. I'll also try to see if I can
get a straight 20' line of sight in my basement and try that.

If I just need like 4 more feet, I'll bet taking the cover off will probably
do it. Have you tried with and without the cover to see how much more a remote will go??

Thanks,

Jim

[psgoldberg]

Similar to the problem at the beginning of the thread, when learning a code in Girder, I will press the same button on the remote (Pronto 1000) and alternately get different codes.

Specifically, I am associating TheaterTek codes. For "Play" Girder receives 1700008280CD the first time I press and 1700008280EF the next time. And each time thereafter.

I have the Pronto within 6 inches of the USB-UIRT, tried short and long presses and just changed the batteries of the Pronto.

PSG

[jrhees]

Jim,

I've performed distance tests, but so much varies from remote to remote (depending on carrier frequency and the remote's IR wavelength) that I couldn't say how much will be gained by removing the front cover...

psgoldberg,

As I stated before, this is because your remote is using RC-5 protocol, which toggles between two different IR codes on each button-press. The easiest way to deal with this issue is to assign two event-strings in Girder for each button. That is one of the nice features of the newer versions of Girder -- the ability to assign multiple events to the same action.

-Jon

[Guest]

Verified the Hauppauge silver remote is RC-5. I can deal with 2 remote codes per button. The problem is some buttons seem to send a different code every time, or usually toggle between 2 and randomly send a 3rd or 4th. I suspect this is related to the USB power issue but don't have a powered hub to try.

Jon, have you ever found the root cause of this problem? Is the usb-uirt power hungry, or are we dealing with buggy USB implementations?

[jrhees]

If you would like, email me at support@usbuirt.com and I'll arrange to send you a unit with a different IR receiver I am evaluating. I would be interested to know if it performs better/worse with your Hauppage Remote.

-Jon

[Maladin]

I made it work. The two codes it toggles between are expected since its RC-5, and I programmed them both. The extra codes I got were pilot error, I wasn't close enough to the receiver when teaching. I made the false assumption that if it read anything at all it would read the right code.

My keyboard is actually around the corner from the receiver and I was being lazy. When I saw that it was reading codes I thought, great, it bounces and doesn't require true line of sight. When I took the time to learn codes from six inches away it learned just two per button. When I'm in the same room and using the software, it now works flawlessly.

Thanks Jon, for the great product, great support, and your patience with n00bs like me.

[jrhees]

I made the false assumption that if it read anything at all it would read the right code.

Not an unusual assumption to make. Because the receiver is universal in nature, it cannot naturally 'filter' out IR signals that don't meet a specified criteria (since different manufacturers use different signalling techniques). Hence, it does its best at taking any perceived IR signal and turning it into a unique code.

-Jon